Chinese Language in Bangkok
Posted by Stuart at 02:24 PM on January 04, 2006In recent comments, Kitjar wondered what dialect is most commonly spoken in Bangkok asked whether the Dim Sum in Bangkok is Cantonese. He also mentioned the Teochew dialect and it made me wonder which Chinese dialect is most common here in Bangkok. So, I consulted my favorite reference, Wikipedia.
Turns out that some linguists debate whether or not Teochew is a separate language or a dialect of Chinese. In any case, it comes from the coastal region of eastern Guangdong (Canton) known as Chaoshan. And, as Wikipedia states:
Chaoshan was one of the major sources of Chinese emigration to Southeast Asia during the 18th–20th centuries, forming one of the larger dialect groups among the Overseas Chinese. As a result, Teochew is now spoken in many regions outside of Chaoshan.In particular, the Teochew people settled in significant numbers in Thailand, Cambodia and Singapore where they form the largest Chinese dialect group. They constitute a significant minority in Hong Kong, Vietnam, Malaysia, and Indonesia.[1]
But even though it comes from the same area of Southern China (Canton) as Cantonese, Teochew comes from a different linguistic family than the Cantonese dialect. Teochew comes from the Min form of Chinese, and Cantonese comes from the Yue group.[2]
So there's the answer, at least according to Wikipedia. Does anyone have any first hand knowledge of the validity of these statements? I did take a Cantonese language class in San Francisco for a few months many years ago, but all I remember is hello, good night, and being able to count from 1-10, so I have no idea one way or the other.
Sources:
[1] Wikipedia: Chaozhou Dialect accessed today at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chaozhou_dialect
[2] Wikipedia: Chinese Dialects accessed today at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_dialects
Stuart,
Actually, I was not wondering what is the common Chinese dialect in Krungthep, it is obviously Teochiu. In the 1940s, there were MORE Teochius in Krungthep than in Swatow, Guangdong.
And, Wikipedia is right, Teohiu is NOT related to the Cantonese dialect, but part of the Min or Fujianese (Hokkien) dialect.
That's why, if you can understand Fujianese, you would be also able to understand, but not neccessarily able to speak Teochiu.
I grew up speaking Cantonese as my first Chinese dialect. I am actually Hakka, but I understand only a very basic Hakka. I can understand Hokkien, but cannot speak, just can't get the right intonation.... urrgghh
I would say, Cantonese is the MOST useful language in KL, Ipoh and Sandakan. Other places in Malaysia tend to speak Hokkien. Thus, if I have to speak Chinese at other places, I tend to use my broken Mandarin.... hee hee
Kitjar, Opps. My mistake. I guess *I* was the one wondering about the most common dialect in Bangkok. I've made the appropriate change above.
Just reading those Wikipedia entries made my head swim. I had no idea it was such a complicated picture. It's amazing that the Chinese government has been able to keep the country in one piece, with all of those different dialects around.
Thanks for the additional information!
In China and even Japan, and Vietnam, the unifying factor is the writing system. A classical Vietnamese can understand a fellow Cantonese, not by his spoken words, but by his writing and vice-versa.
Mandarin, the national language or Guo Yu is actuallly the dialect of Northern China. Even Shanghainese speak a different dialect than their Beijing counterparts.
I guess, the only consolation is that all Chinese share a similar writing script. However since 1949, there are now TWO writing script, simplified and traditional chinese, the one use in Mainland China and Taiwan/Hong Kong.
I learnt the simplified version during my Mandarin tuition, but I completely forget EVERYTHING.... I am hopeless when it comes to Mandarin, as I hardly get a chance to use it.... urrrghhhh
Interesting post. The distinction between a language and a dialect is surprisingly unclear. In theory anything that is mutually inteligible by native speakers belongs to the same language, but that's not a very bright line and other factors are in play as well.
Linguists joke that "a language is a dialect with an army and a navy." Meaning that national identity plays a big role in what people think of as one or the other.
Random lingusitics major thoughts emerge... In the opposite of all the Chinese languages having the same written language, Serb and Croat are essentially the same spoken language but they write in different alphabets!
Cynghanned.
Ian, I think one example of your liguist joke is found right here in SE Asia -- I have heard people say that the Lao Language is actually a Thai dialect. They share many words and the script is very similar. But I guess the national borders make it an official language.
An interesting part about the Lao/Thai differences is the Issan dialect. Issan is so different from Thai that most Thais that are not from the North-East region would be lost after a minute of conversation. However an Issan native would have absolutely no trouble keeping up with a Lao person in even quick conversation.
It is true that the majority of sino-thai in Bangkok today are from Teochew speaking family. However, Teochew is NOT to be considered as a common language in Bangkok anymore because most of sino-thai aged 40 years old or younger couldn't use Teochew to converse anymore. Standard Thai is their mother tongue and this is the only language they need to know and speak at home, in school and workplace. In other words, the Teochew in Thailand or Sino Thai in general had been successfully assimilated into Thai society in term of language.
However, in recent years, Mandarin has become one of the most favorable foreign languages among thai students (for both sino-thai or pure thai). We can find Mandarin language teaching centers everywhere in Bangkok. Please note that these students are mostly taught by language teachers imported from China, who tend to speak Mandarin with strong Beijing accent in teaching. This is contrast to the situation in Malaysia and Singapore where majority of Chinese language teachers are local people.
Thus, it is possible that the number of Mandarin speakers will overtake the number of Teochew speakers in Bangkok in the near future.
well, Dim-sum is definitely a Cantonese word. I think it's sad that the number of Teochew speaking people in Bangkok is decreading so fast. just like the others have said, i think Mandarin will overtake Tewchew in the near future.
I like to spoken Chinese-Teochew. ^-^